As reported by Nick Abramo in this story from Friday’s Honolulu Star-Advertiser, the OIA is debating whether or not to participate in the new state high school football tournament format.
A Sept. 6 letter signed by league president Wade Araki was sent to Hawaii High School Athletic Association executive director Chris Chun. Chun responded in a letter dated Sept. 9 addressing Araki’s issues. Here are the concerns expressed by the OIA and the responses from Chun:
OIA: 1. The legitimacy of the procedures involved in the HHSAA’s executive board decision of Aug. 22 to implement a three-tiered state football format as a one-year pilot program.
Chun: “From Article V of the HHSAA constitution, (the HHSAA) has exclusive control over state championship contests and tournaments. Each regular member of the (HHSAA) executive board shall have the number of votes equal to the number of HHSAA member schools in the league he/she represents.” (Of the five Hawaii leagues, four voted in favor of the new football structure and the OIA abstained.)
OIA: 2. The validity of the new Open division (the top tier of the new format) as a “true” state championship, since only two leagues (the OIA and the Interscholastic League of Honolulu) are involved and since all HHSAA tournaments have at least three leagues participating.
Chun: “The Open division is a state championship. You referenced that the HHSAA needs three leagues to conduct a state championship. However, this refers to the creation of a new sport, not a new division within that sport. In this case, the Open division refers to the sport of football, in which all leagues currently participate.”
OIA: 3. A departure from the HHSAA’s formula for state tournaments, which gives out berths to leagues in proportion to the amount of teams in a given league. In this case, the OIA is wondering why two Open division berths were given to the ILH and four to the OIA, when the proportion of OIA football-playing teams to ILH teams (22-7) is much greater.
Chun: “The Division I and II tournaments follow the league representation formula, but there are exceptions when the formula is not followed. Leagues are granted minimum berths in some state tournaments, which include air riflery, bowling, golf, cheerleading and even football. In the Open division, if the formula (based on four OIA Open teams and three ILH Open teams) was followed, the OIA woud only receive three berths (instead of four) and the ILH would receive three berths instead of two.”
OIA: 4. Whether the HHSAA addressed Title IX compliance when increasing the state football tournament from two divisions and 12 teams to three divisions and 20 teams. (By law, Title IX mandates that girls and boys have the same opportunities in sports, and football is played almost exclusively by boys.)
Chun: “The HHSAA has always been cognizant and proactive when it comes to Title IX. Even after the expansion (of football), there will still be 28 more girls teams (166) participating than boys (138). The HHSAA has met, and will continue to meet, with community leaders and experts in this area to ensure that we remain compliant.”
OIA: 5. The uncertainty of how the evaluation of the pilot program will be conducted and the process of how it will be determined if the format continues or is made permanent.
Chun: “The (HHSAA) football committee will be convened following the fall season to evaluate the new format and advise the HHSAA executive board of its findings. This topic will be placed on the agenda at (the next four) board meetings for discussion.”
Wow!! I’ll be back with my coffee and donuts to read the comments.
You guys see how Chun twist the question #2 around, and then tries to give an answer to a question that was never asked all while eluding the oia’s question.
Chun actually does answer the question, alpha. Araki questions the legitimacy of the Open Division as being a true state championship with only two leagues because he says the rules state you need three leagues. Chun responds that the rule Araki is referencing only applies to newly created sports, not newly created divisions WITHIN an existing state championship sport. Therefore, by the rules of the HHSAA that araki is citing, Open Division is a state championship.
I’m honestly not sure what Araki’s beef here is aside from “The ILH has more than one team included in states.” Chun already addresses that by saying “In the Open division, if the formula (based on four OIA Open teams and three ILH Open teams) was followed, the OIA woud only receive three berths (instead of four) and the ILH would receive three berths instead of two.””
In effect, HHSAA making an exception to the league representation rule for this division actually benefitted the OIA and hurt the ILH for that Open Division, not the other way around.
I’m kind of tired of all these OIA crying. Yes the ILH do have advantages but isn’t this called the state tournament so the best in the state should be in the tournament . If that’s the case then OIA and ILH should just have there own tournament and that’s it. The only people losing out is the fans and the kids. Doesn’t bishop Gorman enter there state football tournament and there the number one team in the nation. I don’t here Nevada public schools crying about them. Just saying…
The problem with the open formula is the HHSAA created the state tourney on “What If”. Sombody also wrote a comment here stating the same, it’s not a true state championship because only oahu teams are involved. It does make for a more competitive tournament but, why fix somthing when it’s not broken.
Typical OIA crybaby response. “If we can’t be the only team that’s got multiple berths in the state tourney, we’ll take our ball and run”. Cry me a river, Alpha and the other OIA crybabies!
Chun left out some info to the following questions…
#1: Because we are elitist ILH alumnus and when our league participants are not winning titles something is wrong and needs to be fixed.
#2: Because Kahuku is winning too much and has a cakewalk through the OIA so lets see if they can still win when they have to play two of our top ILH teams in that Open division.
LohuiLani=crybaby
LohuiLani, we all know you hate the ILH. Quit crying!
OIA – Pay attention. These are things you need to address (at least off the top of my head).
Q1: At the end of answer: “OIA abstained.”
QUESTIONS: Assuming the OIA member was actually in the room to abstain, is there a by-law allowing each member to later change their “abstain” to an up or down vote? Time limit to do so? Obviously OIA has enough votes to outvote rest of HHSAA.
Q2: All good. Clear.
Q3: OIA references “formula” and states OIA-ILH teams ratio is 22-7. Then Chun states, “but there are exceptions when the formula is not followed.” Followed with, “In the Open division, if the formula (based on four OIA Open teams and three ILH Open teams) was followed…”
HELLO MCFLY? ANYBODY HOME? How does Chun ignore the FACT that the ratio is 22-7 by stating it’s only 4-3? How was he able to ARBITRARILY assign only FOUR OIA teams to this mythical “Open” division? I thought he grad from prestigious ‘Iolani? What kind of math do they teach there??? @Education-ally Challenged: Please research and report. Thanks.
Never mind that he CONTRADICTS himself by stating “exceptions…when NOT followed”, then “if…WAS followed”, thereby insinuating that HHSAA is MAKING an exception by ONLY allowing two ILH teams. I’m ASSuming he wrote/rewrote his responses? Is he hoping that only the ‘village idiots’ will read his crap and not analyze? Is he trying to pull a ‘Trump’ move? I get that he’s trying to twist the verbiage and rhetoric to fit his agenda, but at least try to make the waters slightly muddy. HA!!! “Chun Trump” (ie. “Chun Retard”)
Also, are these “exceptions” CLEARLY written and approved by HHSAA majority? Or are these ‘fly by the seat of my pants’ situations without any vetting processes?
Q4: No problemo
Q5: Read: This year’s format is a one-year deal. Wonder what next year will look like?
Come on OIA, push HARD!!!!!
I wonder how the players would feel if they didn’t get to play in the tournament…isn’t sports supposed to be about the kids?
Added note: One-year deal the HHSAA and ILH snuck in because they were scared Lee and Tua MIGHT not make States. Just sayin’….
Alpha September 16, 2016 at 6:19 am
The problem with the open formula is the HHSAA created the state tourney on “What If”. Sombody also wrote a comment here stating the same, it’s not a true state championship because only oahu teams are involved. It does make for a more competitive tournament but, why fix somthing when it’s not broken.
Oahu teams are the only ones participating every year regardless of the format. Outer islands is a waste of time & waste of money flying them here. What was the last time the outer island made it to a semi final or even out of the 1st round?
TooMeke September 16, 2016 at 6:48 am
Added note: One-year deal the HHSAA and ILH snuck in because they were scared Lee and Tua MIGHT not make States. Just sayin’….
Oh they’ll make states & that’s was convincingly clear as day last week when they played Punahou. Its more like “This is Tua’s & Lee’s last season at St. Louis”.
If the state tournament was so great before, why are all of you OIA fanboys complaining?
OIA shouldn’t play in the open division ILH is trying to find ways to make money so they can recruit players. Waianae players are all from Waianae they don’t recruit. Waianae they make use of what players they get.
“QUESTIONS: Assuming the OIA member was actually in the room to abstain, is there a by-law allowing each member to later change their “abstain” to an up or down vote? Time limit to do so? Obviously OIA has enough votes to outvote rest of HHSAA.”
TooMeke, each league has one rep. There are five reps on the voting panel, MIL, BIIF, OIA, ILH, and KIF. OIA abstained, the other 4 reps voted yes. If OIA voted no, they still would’ve been outvoted by the rest of the committee.
“The problem with the open formula is the HHSAA created the state tourney on “What If”. Sombody also wrote a comment here stating the same, it’s not a true state championship because only oahu teams are involved. ”
alpha, neighbor island teams declined to participate in the open becuase they knew they couldn’t compete so they decided to stay in DI. I’m not making this up. This was reported by HNN and HPW last month.
Toomeke, no disrespect to you, but you need more humility in your tone.
“How does Chun ignore the FACT that the ratio is 22-7 by stating it’s only 4-3? ”
Because he’s only talking about the Open Division.
“Never mind that he CONTRADICTS himself by stating “exceptions…when NOT followed”, then “if…WAS followed”, thereby insinuating that HHSAA is MAKING an exception by ONLY allowing two ILH teams. ”
this isn’t a contradiction at all. he says that if he did NOT make an exception, there would be a 3-3 split (and imagine how pissed off red raider nation would be!). But he said exceptions exist in HHSAA sports, and the committee (not him, becuase he doesn’t run HHSAA as a dictator) decided on the 4-2 split. Or whatever it is.
” Is he trying to pull a ‘Trump’ move? I get that he’s trying to twist the verbiage and rhetoric to fit his agenda, but at least try to make the waters slightly muddy. HA!!! “Chun Trump” (ie. “Chun Retard”)”
No. he’s not twisting words to make his case. He actually clearly states it. YOU are the one actually twisting them.
Again, I’m not trying to fight with you or piss you off, but I think you might want to approach your posts with more humility and actually read what’s being said.
@808savage…. listen I don’t care how many oia/ilh is in, my views is the top 6 teams move on and the rest back to the drawing board. But the questions I’ve had is pretty much the same with the oia’s…. it has nothing to do with who scared or whatever jr high reason that’s been coming up on here. But the fairness of it all, remember this whole open Div tourney is based on “What If” and no solid foundation. So the entire state tourney this year is based on the HHSAA’s discretion. And the real loser would be Kam, if they end the season ranked #4 they lose out because Iolani gets automatic bid in the Div1 tourney no matter what. So what was purpose of changing the states when no changes have been made during the regular season? Why fix somthing that wasn’t broken.
All you OIA sheep are in DENIAL! The OIA knows no one but Kahuku can compete year in and year out. They are trying to win with numbers by flooding the tournament with teams. Two of the top teams are in the ILH. Get better OIA instead of trying to rig the tournament. The OIA abstained because this complaint was the plan all along. STL and PUN should pull out and do like Gorman, play only elite teams from around the country. They got the money. Leave the OIA with the bs state tournament they want.
@al. No disrespect taken. This place ain’t all that.
Reading vs interpreting and understanding. Nuff said.
All I see in your post is a regurgitation of Chun’s statements.
To (again) question one of his (and yours) statements: Why did he arbitrarily decide on the 4-3 ratio for this Open Class of the tournament?
Let me rephrase that critical analysis question to paint a clearer picture:
How did Chun create an Open Division in States WITHOUT an Open Division? Anywhere?? In all of Hawaii nei???
What criteria did he use? What input and feedback did he obtain? What analyses of possible outcomes, repercussions, opportunity costs were conducted? Was there any vetting by a neutral third party?
Or…was it all achieved by…MAGIC? Maybe he got input from Pele and Maui?
And I adjusted my humility level to match that of “Chrunmp”, the HHSAA, and ILH.
On my way to Vegas to watch the eventual State Champs…regardless of the format!!!
Gooooood night!!
RRFL!!
In order for Hawaii to be the best we need more of the best to play the best which helps all teams and players get better! Stop crying already and deal with it! Time for change and it will only benefit all! This is getting old! Sounds like the same song with different beat!!! No one wants to hear it!!!
“So the entire state tourney this year is based on the HHSAA’s discretion.”
It’s always been like that, Alpha. For all sports. The HHSAA is the governing body for every state tournament. The HHSAA isn’t some shadowy boardroom run by ILH business interests. It’s a committee with 1 rep from EACH league and they submit proposals, debate, and vote.
This state tournament format passed not because The ILH Cabal pushed it on the helpless public schools. EVERY rep voted for it and 4 reps approved and the OIA abstained. Only 1 out of the 5 reps is from the ILH.
There will never be a formula that satisfies everyone. OIA will always claim something is rigged since the ILH has money.
The ILH will always say they should have another team since crowning a champion should be a tournament with all the best teams represented.
Then people will complain about recruiting. But most people would change their tune if it was their son being offered a $22,000 tuition waiver or scholarship.
At the end of the day there is not right or wrong way to do it. If you guys don’t like it, then make some changes that allow you to be in the position of leadership where you can actually cause change.
@AL, I feel for you. You make good points and you are able to read things in context. Unfortunately, I am probably the only one on here who will understand what you write and can actually understand what Mr. Chun is saying.
It’s exasperating to have to defend points that do not actually exists since some people just cannot read simple English and understand it. Then they twist it, get bent all out of shape, then start regurgitating all kinds of things that was never even said in the first place.
That is just tragic.
TooMeke: “How did Chun create an Open Division in States WITHOUT an Open Division? Anywhere?? In all of Hawaii nei???”
I think you would have to ask the committee that. It’s the committee that decided. Chun isn’t a dictator.
good luck to kahuku. Do the state proud!
Rpaahana September 16, 2016 at 7:52 am
All you OIA sheep are in DENIAL! The OIA knows no one but Kahuku can compete year in and year out. They are trying to win with numbers by flooding the tournament with teams. Two of the top teams are in the ILH. Get better OIA instead of trying to rig the tournament. The OIA abstained because this complaint was the plan all along. STL and PUN should pull out and do like Gorman, play only elite teams from around the country. They got the money. Leave the OIA with the bs state tournament they want.
Whoa whoa whoa lol, “play only elite teams from around the country?” Don’t you know how big this country is? Can you make sure your schools stay consistently top10 in the Country instead of Hawaii alone first. Being elite in Hawaii doesn’t mean your elite in the nation. Punahou is elite as a whole, but not in the football dept.
I will compliment the Kahuku fans though. My buddies wanted to go to the BG game so 4 of us are going. We see people dressed in all over Vegas. I am impressed with the community support.
hahahahahaha What all you OIA loyalists scared, or what? What a joke. If this is state championship what the hell we care how many ILH and how many OIA teams make it in? The best should make it in. Period. End of discussion. Who cares about the 4th place OIA team (aka Farrington). They would get smashed. They only lose in 1st rd states year after year. Change it up. Make it interesting again. Who the eff cares if both PUN and STL make it in? I tel you what…I hope this ain’t coming from the Kahuku side.
when you dating that ILH girl and you puinsai, braddah you gotta pull out…OIA now is the time to pull out! lol nbfr
AOK said it best and speaks the truth!
You are nuts if you think the OIA ain’t playing the victim!
@al… I don’t care who voted for this new format, again….. my whole argument is the fairness of it all. I just have questions and not answers so I appreciate that your not taking cheap shots at my curiosity. But answer me this, yes IMO this was all made up by the members of the HHSAA, in all state tourneys the brackets are based on Regular Season records correct? So why does Iolani have a free pass when it should be Kam with the better record? The HHSAA made that decision and not by the teams record. That’s what I ment when I said “based on the HHSAA’s discretion. I’m just trynna give perspective here, I’m not in this oia/ilh war…. agin… Why fix somthing that was broken….
Clowns September 16, 2016 at 8:16 am
In order for Hawaii to be the best we need more of the best to play the best which helps all teams and players get better! Stop crying already and deal with it! Time for change and it will only benefit all! This is getting old! Sounds like the same song with different beat!!! No one wants to hear it!!!
I AGREE!
The more I read and hear about HHSAA and this new bracket system, it just bewilders me in such a change.
I’ve only come up with one logical answer.
Selling more seats! MONEY MONEY MONEY……
HHSAA really don’t care what kind of bracket they come up with. When it comes down to the politics of making more revenue, they will get an estimated 40%
Increase of revenue in comparison to last year because the addition of the “Open Division”.
The state pulling money out of the air once again.
Very clever. The State of Hawaii is also thinking of charging drivers in Hawaii an X amount of money per mile….. What next…. How many breaths of air we take?
Open Division or not, we support All Hawai’i student athletes. Political deception is on the rise once again.
The OIA was approached by these “pro ILH” ,3 MILLION DOLLARS, lawyers. Didn’t take the bait. These ppl then went to HHSAA. Yes, a bite!! Where is the slush,3 million ? Hmmm. Chum is pissed that his letter leaked because IT’S NOT A PUBLIC FORUM. Huh? Really..always said how can you have a true State Champ with a two league, 6 team and leave out 3 other islands? Huh?
@EducationFirst… Kahuku comes from what we call “small town USA”. When somthing like this happens and especially from a small state like HI, the support is going to be massive….. I do want to wish everyone who flew up for the game a safe return…. enjoy….
Alpha September 16, 2016 at 9:07 am
@EducationFirst… Kahuku comes from what we call “small town USA”. When somthing like this happens and especially from a small state like HI, the support is going to be massive….. I do want to wish everyone who flew up for the game a safe return…. enjoy….
This reminds me of the days when we used to road trip between Oklahoma, Nebraska, and Texas while in college. The support for their high school football in some areas was amazing. Stores would shut down. Restaurants would shut down. And on away games you would see lines of cars driving from these small towns to the neighboring town just to watch football. Very similar to the movie Varsity Blues, but without the abusive coach and on a much larger scale.
@ (Wo)Manely:
The neighbor Island schools WERE included, but they themselves DECLINED to be part of the open division.
AOK September 16, 2016 at 8:29 am
hahahahahaha What all you OIA loyalists scared, or what? What a joke. If this is state championship what the hell we care how many ILH and how many OIA teams make it in? The best should make it in. Period. End of discussion. Who cares about the 4th place OIA team (aka Farrington). They would get smashed. They only lose in 1st rd states year after year. Change it up. Make it interesting again. Who the eff cares if both PUN and STL make it in? I tel you what…I hope this ain’t coming from the Kahuku side.
Over the past 3-4 years there has really been only 3 good teams, Kahuku, STL, and Punahou. The rest of the OIA are okay. I’m confident that KS would beat them (Kapolei, Waianae, Farrington) pretty consistently after they get some stability with their coaches.
Manley September 16, 2016 at 9:05 am
The OIA was approached by these “pro ILH” ,3 MILLION DOLLARS, lawyers. Didn’t take the bait. These ppl then went to HHSAA. Yes, a bite!! Where is the slush,3 million ? Hmmm. Chum is pissed that his letter leaked because IT’S NOT A PUBLIC FORUM. Huh? Really..always said how can you have a true State Champ with a two league, 6 team and leave out 3 other islands? Huh?
Any evidence to support this statement?
This is soooo sad! Let the kids play…. that’s what my son and his friends say. They say they no kea if ILH, OIA, or neighbor island… they like play the best.
I thought this was all sorted out at the initial announcement of an Open Division…..I’m an OIA guy and personally, I really don’t care too much about how this thing is structured. As a matter of fact, I was actually very pleased that they created the new division. I wanted to see Punahou in the state tourney last year and I thought it was a shame that they did not get in. Despite not winning their league, they were definitely one of the best teams in the state who, in my opinion, deserved to be in the dance…
Come on! Fo real OIA? You act like OIA #4 has a chance against ILH #2. Reality is that now it’s a much better tournament that people will attend. MOney from it is not going into ILH or HHSSAA’s pockets, all the money is used to make state tournaments for ALL sports better. After Kahuku this year, who can beat Punahou or St Louis? Waianae beat a mediocre Kamehameha. This is the best thing to happen to the football scene in a while. And this is coming from an OIA player, teacher and coach.
OIA Supporter September 16, 2016 at 10:12 am
This is soooo sad! Let the kids play…. that’s what my son and his friends say. They say they no kea if ILH, OIA, or neighbor island… they like play the best.
Your son and their friends have an optimistic way of looking at things and demonstrate resilience. Those traits will take them far in life. It’s unfortunate that teenagers have more courage and and perseverance than many people who blog in this online community/forum.
Your son and his friends must definitely not be related to 88. He would be complaining about:
-recruiting
-unfair advantages for the ILH
-rich lawyers paying off the OIA/HHSAA/PAL/HGEA/HSTA or whatever acronym he can come up with
-propaganda to favor the ILH
-HHSAA’s and ILH’s conspiracy to rig the tournaments to favor the ILH
-The government not awarding his family more welfare monies, a higher spending limit on his EBT card, and that he cannot use his EBT car to purchase liquor and smokes.
But I applaud your son and his friends. It’s a breath of fresh air and hopefully, something these OIA supporters on here will learn from.
Open Division 2016 HHSAA tourney.
OIA=4 teams from a 14 team D1 league.
ILH=2 teams from a 3 team D1 league.
ILH Iolani which is listed as the 4th D1 team in the ILH gets automatic new D1 berth.
Do the math folks. In the open 66% ILH reps from their league. The OIA sends 28% from their league. How’s that?
“HHSAA really don’t care what kind of bracket they come up with. When it comes down to the politics of making more revenue, they will get an estimated 40%
Increase of revenue in comparison to last year because the addition of the “Open Division”.
The state pulling money out of the air once again.
Very clever. The State of Hawaii is also thinking of charging drivers in Hawaii an X amount of money per mile….. What next…. How many breaths of air we take?”
Checkyoself. You make no sense at all. HHSAA is NOT the State of Hawaii. HHSAA is not a state government organization. More revenue for HHSAA is good becuase it gets redistributed back to the schools and other state tournaments that don’t make as much money as football.
Take the tinfoil hat off. The black suits aren’t out to get you.
@ (s)Cabs, so when the outer island wants to participate, they going change the format and take a slot from OIA or ILH? Answer that Education Cabs. So each year the Open slots will will do musical chairs? When the outer island does the same thing KAPAA is accomplishing, they want in? So many unanswered questions.
@ al
I never said that The HHSAA is governed by the State. My point is it’s a ploy to get more compensation while making up bogus brackets. It’s in Comparison to Hawaii drivers paying per mile.
We’re all going to the same destination but costing Hawai’i people more to get there.
As for tinfoil hats I don’t use them. As for men in black suits, that’s a whole different topic.
Love the comment to get a laugh but better luck next time. Don’t quit your day job!
We support Hawai’i student athletes no matter what.
Politics??? Ehhhh not so much.
@ Mrs. Manely
I don’t have to answer any questions because I don’t know all the answers. Why don’t you take your brilliant questions to Mr Chris Chun himself? You said earlier that the neighbor island schools were left out. I was just saying that were in fact included. They didn’t want to be part the open division so they declined.