It was quite the eventful week at the Hilton Waikoloa Village on the Big Island for the annual Hawaii Interscholastic Athletic Directors Association Conference.
The big news came Friday when the OIA said it will not enter any teams in the Open Division of the state football tournament this year.
That decision was met with plenty of blowblack, including from Star-Advertiser columnist Ferd Lewis, who wrote in Saturday’s newspaper, “what the Oahu Interscholastic Association did Friday was the bureaucratic version of picking up its football and going home in a pout because it didn’t get its way.”
You can read the full column here.
Feedback is welcome below in the comments section.
Looks to me like the ILH is really having two problems. The Open Division teams are down to 3 and then only 1 of their teams gets to play for a championship, when everybody says their 1 and 2 and even #3 teams are in the top 6 or 8 in the state. They want a super league so the three don’t have to play eachother 3 times in the regular season, and more berths in a State Champs tournament for their high performing teams. I don’t think it is jealousy. The OIA is smart for denying the ILH relief on those two issues. The max exposure for their best team is one game against an ILH team, their players don’t get exposed to the ILH wealth of talent on its top 3 teams, and they get revenge on the ILH schools and kids and families who left by denying letting them play.
They should just bring back the prep bowl. Oia #1 vs ilh #1. The only ones going lose out is the oia because all those other teams won’t make the playoffs.
The oia didn’t come up small, they came up Big!!! That’s a boss move, told the HHSAA to take your open div nd shove it up your ass. So now we might have a div1champ(oia champ) vs open champ(most likely an ilh team) = prep bowl all over again, Without the BS of going through what they went thru last year.
CR you are on point and articualated what the ILH and HHSAA do not want to be known. However one slight change in perspective is this – its not so much about protecting the OIA schools as it is about not allowing the ILH to take advantage and exploit the poorer and lesser league.
The excuse all these years from the ILH when Kahuku was winning multiple titles was that Kahuku had a cake walk season and the ILH champ had to battle hard all season long in a harder league.
When they lost to Kahuku in 2015 Cal went on camera and made the excuse…”it would be nice to play them in the regular season so we can get used to their smash mouth style”. Sure enough a few months later the ILH proposes to the OIA to combine leagues and offers 3 Million$$$, OIA says no! so they proceed with plan B, secretly creating the Open division format to get a 2nd ILH team in.
In 2016 STL beat Kahuku and Ron Lee says “the competition in the OIA is weaker and we knew it would come back to bite them…we dont have a soft schedule we play Punahou and Kam so we were prepared for them”.
So when Kahuku or any other OIA school wins things need to change? But when an ILH team wins everything in the universe is fine?
#ELITISTMENTALITY
Prep bowl already that way everyone can stop crying. It’s always gonna be kahuku vs ILH #1. The rest of the oia can have front row seats and watch.
Just curious, if there’s a pretty good consensus among pro-OIA people on here that the Open Division benefits the ILH because they get another team in the playoff, wouldn’t going back to the Prep Bowl format have a similar effect in giving the ILH a disproportionate number of teams in the state championship? If 4 of 14 OIA D1 teams make the Open Division and 2 of 3 ILH make it, isn’t the Prep Bowl’s format of 1 of 14 OIA teams and 1 of 3 ILH teams just as bad? On top of that, the Open division format means that ILH teams need to win at least 2 games to claim a championship, probably against 2 OIA teams, where as a Prep Bowl format would mean an ILH team would only need to beat the OIA champ to claim a title. OIA supporters favoring the Prep Bowl doesn’t make sense to me.
Coach B. Obviously if it’s OIA1 versus ILH1, the OIA is like OK because you have one game winner takes all. But that’s not a state championship (where’s the other islands). We need more representation but to say hey I’m ILH can 2 of our 3 teams jump in on the state tourney? After the OIA is done rolling their eyes they would say… um… we already have a ton of teams who fight it out week in and week out (realize by states it’s always going to be the higher more competitive end of the OIA). Then they say nah it really seems STUPID to let two of your three teams in while we tell the rest of the OIA no get room. Tell the ILH to get the other ILH schools to create a more bigger more competitive league. Then ask for more spots as it is now I have seen some comments saying screw the OIA the ILH should play outer island teams. Well they do play outer island teams and smash. Lol nice try ILH. Go get em OIA.
In a physically brutal sport like Football its better to not have redundant games, there is a reason why the NCAA does not do a bracket of 64 teams for their football playoffs where the eventual champion ends up playing 6 games in 2weeks.
OIA#1 vs ILH#1 – one and done, just like the old prep bowl days! The neighbor islands have tapped out so we can still call it a true state championship. One good thing that came of this HHSAA tourney was that they told STL that their 19yr old players cant play in the tourney, this rule should still be implemented in the NEW prep bowl.
Don’t know why people think OIA #1 vs. ILH #1 is automatically the best vs. the best no matter what. Hard to evaluate best at any given point in time. The most that can be done every year is figure out the champions of each league. Depending on parents’ jobs, a local training genius, or even the water, any pubic school team on any island can make a run. Sure looks like a MIL or BIIF team couldn’t compete today for a State Championship at the highest level. But at least they have their dignity, integrity and liabiity okoles covered by the recent HIADA/HHSAA activities. combining private and public schools also makes them look like the grown ups in the State. and integriyt
“I agree that the number 2 in the ILH could also be a good football program in Hawaii. What I don’t agree with is the idea that the number 2 team from the ILH who has lost 2-3 times to the ILH league champ can come back at it again now in states and attempt to play that same ILH team again for a 3-4 time in the same season to win. At least when the OIA has additional representation it could be the second time that the two teams are squaring off rather than the 3-4 time. That is what I think is ridiculous.”
At WHHY, that is fair. I also don’t think that a 4th place OIA team that loses to Kahuku by 35 or more at times, should be allowed to be in a state tournament over the ILH #2. I may be wrong, but I don’t recall the ILH #2 losing to an ILH #1 more than 2 times in a year unless there was a tie and a tiebreaker game occurred.
I just think all the good teams should be in it. And it’s clear that the ILH #2 is among the top 6 regardless of how many teams are competing in a division.
No matter which way you look at coach B is right. In the open division oia had 4 teams and ILH had 2. If we go back to the prep bowl oia will lose out . When there’s STATE champs don’t you wanna see good games. How much oia teams do you want in the states. You should just call it the oia state championship. Wasn’t better to watch kapolei vs punahou then kapolei vs another oia team they probably played already. If the oia wanna play hard ball then PREP BOWL it is.
anywaaaays!! June 12, 2017 at 12:34 pm
..oh and you are wrong. When Kahuku wins championships the sales in their local apparel shop hit six figures and an average of 6 or more players get offered D1 scholarships (thats over a million dollars worth of scholarship money). Championships do equal money, money that the ILH is losing out on and thats why the ILH is trying to force change in the system.
@anywaays, You are telling me that Kahuku profits or has gross sales over $100,000 just from winning a title? I am in the retail business. If you are selling Cotton Shirts, let’s assume you are charging between $15-$20 for a short sleeve cotton. You would need to sell 5,000-6,667 shirts.
I cannot believe that a community that small in that area would buy 5000-6,667 of anything.
Also, based on the list from scoringlive, can you please tell us the 6 kids from Kahuku who got D1 scholarship for the past 5 years?
Thanks.
Another good question for anywaaays!! is who owns the local apparel shop? Do they pay a royalty to the DOE to use Kahuku’s name? Or does Kahuku just go wild and buy anykine t-shirts when they win a championship?
T & C, Local Motion, and HIC do not sell 5000 shirts in 1 month. I am amazed! It’s almost like Nike, Adidas, and UA set up shop out there.
Watcher…
Punahou played St. Louis 3 times in the last two seasons alone. If they played during states that would have made 4… 4 times in ONE season.
Why does everyone think there has to be X amount of competition from each league? The OIA is fine with #1 versus #1 they are just saying no ILH you can’t have only 3 teams and say 2 of them should go states. ILH #1 has already throughly won. 2-3 times. This open division is only the ILH trying to load the box putting more in. They only have 3-4 teams you don’t get more than one shot at states. I’m glad the OIA is finally standing up for themselves.
That is why you guys dont know how important football is to Kahuku and the OIA and why the ILH wants to have control over it.
1. look at this video from the 2016 championship, no one wore the same red shirt from the 2015 title game. Myself alone, I buy 7 new shirts (for the fam) every year Kahuku goes to the ship.
https://youtu.be/W1ePTOl9W88?t=1m7s
2. Kahukus official on-campus store.
https://www.kahuku.org/
3. http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/million-dollar-business-runs-out-of-kahuku-high/
Why not? So it’s okay to have 4, sometimes, 5, sometimes 6 (depending on the sport) teams fro a league even if many of them stink just due to lack of teams in other league even through common sense and good judgement says that they are exponentially better?
@TheWatcher. I believe Kahuku does that much in sales during championship seasons. But I don’t think total sales goes to one business. Numerous local printers ride that wave and cash in with the schools success and start to print red raider shirts, hoodies etc. . . Remember now, Utah, parts of Arizona have a big Kahuku following and also order shirts thru families in the north shore. K. Johnson, A. Wily, J.Wa’a, S. Afalava, S. Wily, A. Gilman, K. Santiago a few names from Kahuku from championship teams w/scholerships.
CriticalReader June 12, 2017 at 5:54 pm “Don’t know why people think OIA #1 vs. ILH #1 is automatically the best vs. the best no matter what.”
Actually by virtue of being #1 in their leagues they ARE the “best vs. the best”.
Sir, the story says 1 million dollar revenue since 2001. So if you do the math that is around $62,500/year.
So please clarify. When you say, “When Kahuku wins championships, their sales hits the 6 figure marks.” Are you talking over 16 years? Are you talking the year when they win?
Nothing wrong with $62,500. I am guessing from that they are probably making a profit of $30-$35K.
..oh and you are wrong. When Kahuku wins championships the sales in their local apparel shop hit six figures and an average of 6 or more players get offered D1 scholarships (thats over a million dollars worth of scholarship money). Championships do equal money, money that the ILH is losing out on and thats why the ILH is trying to force change in the system.
Sir, based on the story you provided, there is no evidence that says they make 6 figures ($100,000 or more) when they win a title. It does say, “If that football team doesn’t win the state championship, we have a bad economic year. There’s a difference of $50,000 to $60,000 worth of sales or more without a championship shirt,” co-founder Mary Anne Long says. A championship-winning game in November will drive sales through December and into the new year, even until the next season starts.”
So there is not exact number. For example, without specific data, that could mean when they win they make $60,000-$70,000. And if they lose they make $10,000.
There is no evidence that says when they win gross or net sales exceed $100,000.
This is the only mention of numbers on the article you submitted:
1) “Kahuku.org which has made over $1 million in revenues since 2001.” – This just shows how much money they made over the past 15-16 years. Nothing here suggest they make $100,000 a year when they win.
2) “The Red Raiders repeated as state football champions in 2012 and that was the store’s most successful year: It paid the school $34,000 of its profits.” – Nothing here suggest they made over $100,000, even when they won in 2012, their most successful year.
3) “If that football team doesn’t win the state championship, we have a bad economic year. There’s a difference of $50,000 to $60,000 worth of sales or more without a championship shirt.” – Nothing here suggest they make $100,000 when they win a title.
Now I am not saying they are not successful, but I don’t see any evidence that supports your statement of making 6 figures when they win titles, or how any of us are incorrect.
I just went onto the site. Shirts sell from $10-$15 each. That’s a lot of shirts they need to sell in order to his $100,000 or more sales. BTW, are you talking gross or net sales?
Guaranteed $15k-20k gross in flag sales alone this past season, which wasn’t even a championship season. Add shirts, polos, stickers, etc from all sellers and easily over 100k last year alone. Come up to the North Shore during football season and you will see.
@ Fo Real, the only evidence given so far was the article provided by anyways. Here is the exact quote from the article.
“Kahuku.org which has made over $1 million in revenues since 2001.”
2001 to 2017 is either 15 – 16.5 years based on when the site actually started since it only says since 2001 and doesn’t give a day or month.
So even if we use 15 years which means I am not even factoring in 2001 and all of 2017 until June 13, 2017, that is still only $66,666.67 per year.
While nothing wrong with making that much money, that isn’t even close to making $100,000/year.
Now granted, there are some years that they might make $100,000 and others where they make $33,333.33 which would average it out.
But there is not data saying that happens. The only evidence provided is the site has revenue over 1 Millions. When you check public records, it says it’s $1,000,412.97 from 2001-2016 since public record’s filings of taxes doesn’t have data on 2017 yet.
Ae you saying that public record and this article is incorrect sir?
You ask too much questions – Six figures during a championship year that’s all you need to know!
If Baldwin and Hilo no like play the open ( they have played the last 16 years). Then go with Ilh1 Oia1,2 and 3. Let ILH play Oia2 since O2 played O1 in the Oia championships. That way ILH get points for beating the top of OIA.
Watcher…
“2001 to 2017 is either 15 – 16.5 years based on when the site actually started since it only says since 2001 and doesn’t give a day or month.”
cmon now the article was written in April, 2014. So it’s not including the last couple of seasons sales. I don’t know that if helps the other opinion but if your going to sound like your giving back facts at least check the easy stuff.
@ Whyy, even if you only go to 2014, sales still do not hit $100,000 per year on average if you do the math. That still is only $71,428 and change. Still not close.
anywaaaays!! June 13, 2017 at 6:33 pm
You ask too much questions – Six figures during a championship year that’s all you need to know!
@ anywaaaays, Once again sir, there is no evidence provided that supports your statement. The math clearly shows that while a nice profit is made, it isn’t near the 6 figure mark you are making claims about. Your article and public record of non-profit organizations state your argument is incorrect. Thanks you though.
anywaaaays!! June 12, 2017 at 12:34 pm
..oh and you are wrong. When Kahuku wins championships the sales in their local apparel shop hit six figures and an average of 6 or more players get offered D1 scholarships (thats over a million dollars worth of scholarship money). Championships do equal money, money that the ILH is losing out on and thats why the ILH is trying to force change in the system.
SUCKAS!
@anywaays, I am just wondering sir. Do you just make up random numbers or do you have any any evidence to support all of your statements?
If you look at this article provided by our newspaper: http://www.hawaiiprepworld.com/football/recruiting/
I do not count an average of 6 Kahuku Players getting NCAA D1 Scholarships. So far this is how it looks since 2016.
2016 – 3 players
2017 – 3 players
2018 – 4 players (so far)
2019 – 3 players (so far)
2020 – 3 players (so far)
Honestly, where are you getting your figures from? It seems you just make up stuff to antagonize others or to try and win an argument. It makes you not credible when you do this. This isn’t even close to the 6 players on average you are referring to.